Instead, they outsource it to someone like Fidelity, Schwab or Vanguard. You might think that, like a bank, just having the utility of your money would be compensation enough for these companies. But in reality, they charge high maintenance fees. Responsibility and pressure are often high, but developers vest the benefits of an appreciative market for their services. Financial coaching, life and health insurance, paid vacation, profit-sharing, and a variety of other concessions are common.
Most of the Software Engineers are getting well paid so that they can invest and plan for early retirement. It is not true that software development is a dead-end job after Here, though, are some things that are true: Ageism exists in the software industry along with sexism, racism, xenophobia, brogrammer culture, and all of those other social goodies.
In most jobs as long as you continue to write code you will likely have a limited set of promotions you can get. Usually you go through some kind of hierarchy from junior to senior to lead programmer or software engineer. Engineers employed with consulting firms or software vendors often travel long distances to meet with clients. Software engineers usually work 40 hour weeks, but nearly 17 percent work 50 hours or more a week. Also, software engineers may have to work evenings and weekends to meet deadlines and resolve problems.
How Long Do Programmers Work. Most programmers work 8 hours a day, but in those 8 hours, you have a lunch break, team meeting, and then the work that needs to be done on a computer, which is coding, researching, and all the other things that go with that. Typically, you get 15 vacation days a year for your first three years, 20 for your fourth year, and 25 a year after that. You can accrue up to 30 days; after that, any further days earned just disappear without compensation until you take some vacation.
But if you are not a Geek—and if you DO have personality and some class —then become a doctor or a finance person or an accountant or an actuary. If you are smart enough to be an engineer —that is the very reason you should not become one.
Think about it—If your IQ is top 0. If you are smart enough to be an Engineer —that is the very reason you should NOT become one. Late reply but I love this post! I totally agree, and if I was lucky enough to be married with kids and they were smart, I would never ever encourage them into engineering like I went, but instead, go into something either more easy or more rewarding with higher pay, like a gym teacher or labor union leader or a financial advise swindler or a life insurance executive.
Con artists have it made. Sorry to say, I have to agree with early exit planning. When I started developing software 35 years ago, no worries about offshoring, unchecked guest worker visa abuse, endless restructuring, or goofy bureaucratic management fads. Skills were more transferable between jobs and companies. On the other hand, career progression in tech is so much faster now.
Maybe why software is still so buggy, or why so many projects go awry. There was good reason senior managers used to have a few grey hairs. Careers seem to be peaking at least 10 years earlier in general, even more in tech. Can vouch that keeping up gets harder, not so much by creeping laziness, but the burning desire to know and do everything wanes, replaced by non-professional interests and goals.
And of course, the corporate world became nastier. Not that it was great, but usually at least tolerable, and considerably more supportive. Now it all seems to be sink or swim. The STEM field in general suffers shocking attrition. Not surprising why: no jobs, low pay compared to alternatives, or poor working conditions. So a plan B is crucial. So glad I found this blog Joe. I stumbled upon your blog from other blogs and I really enjoy reading your blog!
I am a Software engineer too. But I might offer a different point of view. I think the problem with software engineering with me right now is technology changes so fast and you have to constantly immerse yourself in new ones every day. I used to, and still love doing this, for the most part.
I chose this because I really loved it, and get well paid for it. This lasted until I decided to slow down and became a permanent employee. Then politics and bureaucracy creep in and I am hating it. Once I get my bonus, I am heading out the door, either to independent contracting again, or stay home to raise our kids. My husband and I achieved financial independence without realizing it until recently.
I hope by reading your blog, we can transition our family into the FIRE lifestyle by having sustainable cash flow.
You have to keep learning new things and new employees can learn just as fast as you. They are cheaper too so it makes sense for the company to rotate senior people out.
Good luck on your journey! Software engineer too. I subscribed your blog. Love it. I have been thinking about leaving this career very often now. I took one computer class when I was in college back in my country. I hate it. I have no idea about it after one semester. I chose this career in only because it could change my life for the better quickly as an immigrant.
I started to like software engineering shortly after and landed a very good first job in after graduated with M. I thought I could work until I have plenty of time. I wish I knew better and earlier. I am 48 now. Thanks God that the housing market is good. The equity in two houses gives me some comfort.
My current company is a fast growing startup with little over people. I am working with a team of very talented young people.
I could be their mother. My mind is actually still good to work on cutting age technologies. My health is more important than anything else now. Glad I am still very healthy.
I hope I could still keep this career for another 3 years until my daughter goes to college. Then I will leave MA and move to Orlando to continue in this field until she graduates. My dream is to work as a greeter or similar job for Disney, the happiest place on earth and the closest place to heaven. I am sure that day will come. Civil engineer here. After five years switched to a mid-size city public works department, becoming director by Lessons learned: 1 I was not very good at managing people, even though I had a staff of 55 in public works, 2 I was really good at technical stuff, even at 64, 3 the public sector can be as demanding as the private sector, and 4 you will reach a point at which others will not listen to you no matter how technical solid and logical your presentation.
That is your clue to get out, whether from that specific job or from your career. Now I operate a model railroad and explore the implications of resource depletion. No one listening still, but the trains run on time!
That is happened to me too. An engineer had always been in a deadline. You might take a day off sometimes, but the next day, you might not get any chances to sleep. Like you said, and I agree, this job suits more to a younger lad.
Senior engineers should have seen themselves as consultant experts rather than doing the labor themselves. Leave that kind of work to a younger engineer as they will learn a lot from that detailed work as well. Win win. I decided to not become an engineer. Instead, I joined the military as an officer. I left the service last year after only 3 years to be a project manager. I currently manage a team of engineers.
My current salary is k. I work about k a week and do some light traveling a lot of those hour weeks is me telling other people what to do and when it needs to get done. I literally drank and partied my way through college while my engineer friends spent years pulling their hairs out. HI, I know I may sound naive,but u did two masters and that too not highly correlated? Can u pls explain how does that work? And how many years u spent for this combo? And also how did u get hired for the project mgr job assuming u hd no expereince beforehand?
Please do reply, thanks. It really depends on your cost of living. Check out Root of Good. What are the main things I need in order to exit? What amount should I have in savings and retirement before I can say bye-bye?
I should be able to hit the following goals by working 9 months:. Are you making enough money from your other gig to support yourself? I would get the passive income rolling so it will cover part of your expense. You probably need more in emergency saving account so you can give it a year to switch career. Not sure how to do it. I do that primarily for fun. My UI engineering contracting affords me the ability to do that on the side. So I work 9 months, then travel for 3.
That would be the day! Do you like engineering? I recommend you find a few people who are working in the field and talk to them. Good luck. This description of the engineering profession sounds awfully familiar to the architectural field.
Long hours are expected, and so on. Very stressful and the construction industry and clients have pushed more and more liability on the architect. Starting salaries for intern architects are notoriously low. RB40 your blog is a golden nugget. So many people have shared their experience. My engineering career lasted 14 years including a couple of years part-time while waiting for a green card and doing an MS degree in computer engineering. I quit to do my own thing which is work on a PhD degree.
Ten years later during which I got an MS in Electrical Engineering and an MA in math at a top-5 university, had a family and raised a 4-year old, made a tidy sum in real estate investments but hated being a landlord! It might sound great to retire at 40 or Doing your thing may mean you are the only one doing it, though. I am a typical engineer who likes the work but not enough to get divorced or ignore my kid or ruin my health for it.
So frankly I am finding myself being nicely nudged into staying at home, watching my stocks, bonds and real estate do well and walking down to the beach to surf every day. I would really like to be part of a meaningful engineering project with time for my little family and without hurting my 50 year-old body with stress, but this so far for me has been an illusion.
It seems our workplaces have either become wastelands of unmotivated slackers making minimum wage or those hungry cats that work hours a week as young something engineers or something lawyers or something doctors. Managers last longer but the shake-up axe is always one or two years away. While retiring at 50 sounds good for someone who is striving for it, it can be a very lonely place. And what does your kid tell her peers at school about what you do for a living?
If Beethoven could get more than 5 hours out of his day he certainly would have done it. He in fact worked roughly from 8 am to 2 pm then walked a long way down to the local bar and drank until dinner time.
How is being away from home at an office for 15 hours a day including lunch and an hour at least of commute time going to make a better product than the best ever made? You could interchange Accountant for Engineer on this article because the similarities are remarkably similar if not identical.
Share a similar story. Engineer, long hours, no problem. Then kids came which I enjoy very much , realized the long hours working did not balance well with home life.
At age 37, applied for public sector engineering job. The pay is less but the hours are very reasonable. I think not having a lot of debt other than mortgage gave me the flexibility to take a lesser paying job.
My work life balance is great. The job is challenging, but only for 40 hours a week. I am home every night for dinner with the kids and I can work from home sometimes. I now have 5 kids and enjoy life and work very much. I looking forward to retiring as soon as I hit my minimum retirement age for health insurance purposes. I did retire early at the age of 51 from a telecommunication lead engineer position at a Regional Bell Operating Company.
I think my issue was being the go-getter that I was and the one responsible for the final answer for high profile situations just wore me out. If I had stayed a lower level engineer and just kept my head down without trying to make a difference and climb their technical ladder I may have lasted longer. Even though I retired from that engineering career, I still have pursued other passions that my engineering skills crossed over to. I was able to transition to an I.
Systems Analyst role at a major cable company working in one of their video teams that actually paid better than my engineering career so it is possible to retire from your engineering career and still make decent money. The thing is you retire and then pursue your passions or positions of interest on your own terms.
It is all gravy going forward, both financially and personally as you now are the one learning new things rather than always having to have the final answer for everyone else. I did that for a few years and I am now on retirement number 2.
Looking forward to whatever happens next. It is an adventure. Thanks for sharing your experience. I just got tired of the whole engineering field. Good luck on your next adventure! I know some engineers, and it seems they are happy with their careers. For example, I suspect those outside of healthcare may think that healthcare professions are highly desirable careers, but studies show that there is a great deal of burnout in the healthcare professions. Maybe in life, about 15 years in any one profession is enough.
Love him too much to do that. My brother is an ER physician and I can see that it is quite stressful on him. Healthcare is a tough career. The training takes so much time and the job can be very stressful. I know many engineers that are pretty happy with their job. If my kid likes science and engineering, I would encourage him to follow that path.
It might work out better for him. I worked as a CPA in corporate accounting for 30 years. My last position was Accounting Manager with a staff of 30 accountants for a major defense contractor for 11 years.
All was well until the company merged with another and existing executive management was overtaken by the other. Suddenly I found myself working for the most unethical and down right mean people I have ever known. After a few years they began massive layoffs and after a couple of years they laid me off too at age 51 only 2 years from being eligible for full retirement pension benefits. Ironically, the stress was so high being laid off was probably a life saver.
I have remained unemployed and not sure what I will do next or where I will do it, but I have enjoyed the down time none the less. Thanks for sharing.
It sounds like quite a few corporate jobs are very stressful. You should try to get a job with a k. Roll over your old k to the new k. Check with your adviser. Good blog and congrats in retiring. Your description applies to any in demand profession and not just in engineering. High pay typically comes with more stress. Someone working on Wall Street as a trader, investment banker, or in private equity at one of the major firms can accumulate several millions fairly easily compare to an engineer.
I think finance is a much better choice as well. But I can see how you could burnout in this career, though I hope to go into project management which could extend my career life expectancy. Still, my goal is to retire by 50 and I should be on track to do so! Good luck with your career and retirement plan.
This is very interesting. I had talked to a few engineering friends about their frustrations. Should make us physicians grateful. Any premed knows those engineering students worked much harder than we ever did, but perhaps residency and fellowship even things out.
Good luck to all the engineers out there! Some of the other engineers complain about the work loads but honestly, at most they put in a few extra hours a week. I think they just expect things to be handed to them. Does someone who has 25 years of experience really perform that much better than someone with 15 years of experience?
Good luck with your retirement plan. Do you have a family? I guess in a way grateful for having worked at places that demand more so I truly appreciate my current situation. My family time is too precious to me. I only have my kids for a short amount of time and the time I spend with them is more valuable than any job. Plus, not to be paid overtime? That seems improper.
Employees should be compensated properly for the amount of work they put in. Hmm, I have similar views but have had a very different experience. I got my BS in 5 years in AE and have worked for last years, life has been good. Never put in much OT, low-stress, gotten a couple raises, etc. Found the Bogleheads forum early on and started maxing out my k, HSA, and Roth right out of school. In years, I will honestly be able to do whatever I want with my career.
I think what really motivated me was when I discovered what the career salary arc was like for engineers. Good pay to start years , but after that everyone else starts catching up to you. Figured I might as well save and invest as much as possible in those first 10 years. I with I found the career salary arc early on too.
That would be eye opening. Any career that require a lot of office time sounds tough these days. But you reach a dead end pretty quickly unless you want to move into management. My husband is struggling with this in his job software engineer. They always get the highest scores, and the best grades, and wanted OUT of being an engineer. They wanted to get more into management. Some people are really suited for more technical works.
It will be good to get out at 50 and find something more fun to do. To be honest, I think a lot of your points apply to all careers, not just engineering. Not only do they put in long hours, but they deal with management that is absolutely atrocious. I wonder if being at ease with numbers and abstraction perhaps translates to being a bit better with our finances as well? Many IT jobs that were created just in the last 10 or 20 years, are being eliminated now because of the heavy automation focussed trend in the IT industry.
Many IT companies don't want to hire an engineer to do a job that can be done more efficiently and effectively by an automation software, even if the software costs more money. For example, many Indian IT services companies used to hire a lot of engineers as software analysts, train them, get them a L1 or H1B visa and put them in many Wall Street financial firms, to simply provide customer support for various financial or banking applications that run in those banks' servers.
With the advent of cloud technologies, no body cares about a server or an application going down. If one goes down, the cloud controller software that keeps an eye on all the servers or applications running in the cloud, will automatically spawn a new instance. The end user will not even know the impact. The same applies to the customer support roles where the smart chatbots handle the customers first before redirecting them to the real humans who'll take a stab at the customer problem.
Almost all IT operations and customer support roles are getting automated now. IT Admins have to become devops guys they should learn a few programming languages if not, they'll lose their jobs soon. With Agile development methodologies in devops and everywhere, software releases happen every week and not once in 3 months or six months. The skills of the past are no longer relevant today and the same trend will continue in the future. If you have more than 20 years of experience in any domain or technology, the chances are that your salary will be already too high compared to other young professional working in your company.
Moreover, with that level of experience you start demanding more salary and frequent promotions, which most companies cannot afford. Your employer could easily replace you with 3 young workers who demand less than one third of your salary. After spending more than 20 years in the same job and same domain, you become lazy to learn new skills. You resist change in all forms. You keep complaining about every simple change that happens in your workplace, including upgrading to a mac book from your old windows laptop.
The market and industry in which your company is doing business is changing quiet rapidly. So for its survival, the company makes frequent changes within the organization.
Today's organizations look for agile workers to remain innovative and cost-effective. At 45, if you are not agile, flexible and hard-working, you become a liability to the company. You'll eventually be either laid-off in the next performance appraisal cycle or when your boss finds a right opportunity to eliminate you. This is primarily because of the unhealthy lifestyle changes happening in the society such as working very late in the night, personal and job-related stress, frequently eating junk unhealthy food, consumption of alcohol, smoking and lack of physical activity.
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